Episode 36, James Solomons, Group CFO/COO Xref and Finance Thought Leader

James Solomons is an Innovative Business Leader who has a true knack for 'humanising the numbers'. 

With experience drawn from a range of industries including professional services, technology, start-up sector, entrepreneurship, financial services, academia, building & construction, small business management & chartered accounting James has been able to bring this together into a unique approach to business growth and management. He is an experienced accountant who has successfully made the transition from public practice to CFO of an ASX listed tech company.

To contact James please reach out to him at https://jamessolomons.com/

To contact Richard Holmes please call 0403 513 720 or reach out at richardh@hprconsulting.com. https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardholmesfinancerecruiter/

Transcript

Please note that this has been transcribed by AI/Bots so there may be typos and the occasional strange things happening.
 
Richard Holmes  00:00

Welcome to The Numbers People Podcast, where each week, we're going to be speaking with some highly regarded senior finance professionals and career experts looking into the ins and outs of what makes finance people on their teams tick. The podcast is proudly produced in partnership with the ACCA, the Association of Chartered certified accountants, the global body of professional Chartered Accountants. 

In today's episode, we welcome James Solomon's. James is a thought leader in the finance industry and a well regarded speaker and lecturer. He is the global CFO of ASX listed X Ref, a leading technology business. James is an experienced accountant who successfully made the transition from public practice to CFO known as an innovative business leader James has a true knack for humanizing the numbers. His experiences drawn from a range of industries, including professional services technology, the startup sector, entrepreneurship, financial services, academia, building and construction and small business management. Hey, James, how are you? Richard? How are you? Yeah, I can't I can't complain at all. Great to have you on the show. And I've wanted you on the podcast for a while. So it's good that we've actually got the time to do this

James Solomons  01:15

Well, yeah. Well, well, thanks for thanks for having me on. It's always good to get online have a chat.

Richard Holmes  01:21

And with James, for those that don't know, James already have been following his activity on social media and in LinkedIn, in his career is really interesting. He's one of these guys. He's really taking control of his career, made some really interesting moves. And then and it's a pleasure to have you on the show. So would you like to tell us more about how you've got to where you got to?

James Solomons  01:41

It's funny, you say, you know, taking control of my career, probably, up until recently, I've sort of never like to say left it to chance. But you know, I've been one to see opportunities, but quite often not follow them. But I'm in my, I'm 20, just over 21 years as an accountant starting in in a junior role while I was still at Macquarie Uni, I know the date 29th of January 2001, because 29th of January is my brother's birthday. So every year he gets older every year, I've been another year as a bean counter. But yeah, look, I, I was studying business at Macquarie after taking a year off out of high school, and then basically found a job in a local accounting firm looking for a junior accountant, I applied for the job, met the owner, that afternoon, he offered me the job. And so I started there and then switched to commerce at Macquarie. And that was the start of my accounting, accounting career, which I joked that it took me a good 14 years to move out of public practice and, and get into something different. But that's what I did for 14 years, I went in that one firm from junior intermediate, Senior Associate, and then I became an owner in 2008. I bought a parcel of fees and brought that into the partnership. But then it was around 2011 and 12. And then I'd been writing a lot of articles, because I'd read somewhere that you know, to be a trusted adviser become an authority on a space. And so I started writing a lot of articles on small business in the usual fashion of pay for an ad, then gets some print media beside the ad. And so I was writing a lot of articles. But then around 2011 2012, I started seeing the emergence of the cloud, and very quickly saw that this was going to be something good for the industry. Thought I was a late adopter in 2012 to zero and obviously I was was very early on in the journey, in hindsight, but started writing a lot about Xero. And, you know, started working with Xero a little bit you know, Bitcoin their devs up. And so this is all while I'm running my practice and growing my practice with my boss who became my mentor and business partner. And then it really started to become a bit more frequent where I'd be going down in Melbourne and chatting to the Xero guys and helping them think about what the next move should be and how they were supporting accountants. And in 2014, June 26, I got a call from from Chris Reed, who was the MD at zero. I actually thought he was ringing to talk about the setlist for the zero All Stars band. So I was in the zero All Stars band, which was accountants and bookkeepers, and zero staff, basically in a rock band, and we would play at zero con. We're pretty famous. And I thought it was really about the setlist for the Xero con 2014. But he wasn't he he rang up to say that they basically started the search for a new role. Industry lead. Had I seen it and you know, would I know anybody? And I sort of said to Chris, well, I'm a partner in accounting firm. I don't look for jobs. It's just you just don't do that. I said, But how much is it paying? Because it sounds interesting. What had actually been the catalyst for that job was in May 14, I was on the zero roadshow. I was on a panel with Rob stone who was the partner Director at the time, after the panel, I wrote a blog, basically challenging zero to educate the industry that it was currently scaring. So public practice, even in 14 was still very cloud adverse. You know, the adoption curve of innovators and early adopters, it was still only in the early adopter stage. But those scaring a lot of people in the industry and I basically said, Hey, you guys need to now step up and educate the industry take responsibility for the disruption. And away you go. And, and apparently, that blog did the rounds internally. And so when Chris spoke to me, he goes, You know, this actually came about as a result of your blog, we decided it was time to get an industry leader. I ended up apply, went home that night, read it said to my wife of apply for this job. She was like, What are you talking about? I'm like, because you're a partner and accounting firm, like your career is set. You're going to be, you know, this public practice you buy at your business partner? And I said, yeah, no, I said that this is really interesting. It was basically what I was doing day to day, which was being an advocate for cloud and the Xero world, but also helping small businesses, streamline all that sort of stuff, as well as you know, being a traditional tax accountant. So I'm gonna apply for it. So I applied for it and went through the interviews. And basically, they'd written a job description, which was exactly what I was doing day to day. But what they wanted was a full time employee. And the first thing I said was, No, you need somebody that's still relevant. So the minute you step out of practice, you lose touch. I said, So how about if I get the job? I worked three days to zero and two days in practice, knowing full well, it'd be two full time jobs. And they agreed. So you know, I got announced as the head of accounting at zero con 14, it was all secret. Nobody knew, apart from a few internals went up on stage got my T shirt. And I've got obviously I've got photos of that, you know, Roger curry, the founder. I gave like this 32nd I caught on my Oscars speech. Roger was like that was the best on Twitter's like, that was the best intro speech ever. I'm really fired up. Wow, that's pretty cool. So you know, from there, not long after starting that role. In August 14, I actually left the firm I'd been with for 14 years, which was a huge decision, and started a new accounting firm with a new business partner, I took my clients and set up with Rebecca Mahalik. And we set up Aptus, Accounting and Advisory with the intention of it being a full cloud based firm, technology driven, and serve, you know, that first year 15, I traveled around the country on the Xero team, working obviously, for them, when at the same time running a practice, late nights, you know, keeping up to date, you know, we started to build that firm pretty quickly with with our approach and then you know, 2016, through the zero network, I got introduced to the two co founders of X Ref. Very, very similar names, X Ref zero. And X Ref in the HR tech space was basically doing what zero was doing, which was changing an industry with the technology solution that I had. And I met the guys to become their external accountants, they've just gone public. And they needed new external advisors. And they came on as a client and I went into a caretaker CFO role on the first of March 2016. So just over six years ago, while they went off and opened up one of their offices in Canada, and during that time, I helped them search for CFO did a few interviews while they were on Zoom and had the CFO in the office there and P two, and they came back at the end of March, and they still haven't found someone and they just sort of said to me, they went, we actually really liked you. And we actually think you're a good fit. Can you be our part time CFO? Like yeah, okay, I'm running a fledgling accounting firm, I'm still the head of accounting at zero. Sure, I'll just add that into my, my life. Now my wife at this stage had gotten very used to my nomadic lifestyle. And I used to go away once a year, two, the count annual conference, because in accounting at the old firm, we're members of count and once a year, we go to the conference, and that was the that was my once a year travel as a public practice accountant. It went to every second week going to Melbourne, and then on the road shows around the country. So she got used to this sort of me not being there with two young kids. And I said, Hey, I've got another job. She's like, What do you mean, I'm like, I'm now the CFO of a listed company. So officially on the 11th of April, this year, I'll be six years employed at X Ref. And, you know, from there, you know, sort of stepped back from practice. My zero role ended up being retired in June 18, which was only ever a three year old, but it continued for that extra year. And then, you know, basically by the end of 17, I was pretty much full time at zero as we started to go on our growth journey. And you know, but on the practice side, which we're now part of the business depo group, as the Sydney New South Wales Office, but in 2018 Just before we joined business depo the firm actually won the Australian accounting awards most innovative firm in the country award winner She was just a testament to what Rebecca and I had set out to achieve when we started the firm. And certainly, me having stepped back, not long after starting the firm to run X refs accounts, Rebecca was able to execute on that strategy. And it was, it was really nice to win that award, because it's sort of cemented what we headed out to achieve. But these days, you know, obviously full time running the X Ref finance team, and as a CFO, and mid last year picked up the CO COO, titled to run ops and sales. And yeah, that's where my journey has gotten to. So up until basically June 14, it was pretty much stock standard public practice. And then in the last, what, eight years, coming up eight years in June, it's taken a twist that I never would have thought

Richard Holmes  10:48

I was just a fantastic story isn't a thing. It's one of those where you just don't know what's going to happen. Imagine you were you were fairly comfortable in your partner role. And that came out of the blue and look what it's done for you as a person. It's really, really good to hear your story. And it just so shows you if you're passionate about your industry, in which you are you can achieve great things and you get recognized for it. And looking back, James, what advice would you give to someone wanting to pursue a career like yours,

James Solomons  11:12

we were talking a little bit about this before we came on and started recording. But you know, there's two schools of thought around, stay at a business a long time and learn their verses, move around and get experience, I think probably the key for me is when opportunities came up, I would seek them. Or I would really look into them hard and make a decision pretty quickly. I'm in the zero opportunity, I'd made a decision within 24 hours that this is what I wanted to do. So I think you know that that was quite a fast decision. But certainly opportunities come up all the time, you got to be open to them. But you need to then make a decision pretty quickly on do you pursue that opportunity? Or do you just put it to bed and don't let it distract you. So sometimes it might mean a move. And sometimes it might mean you decide to stay where you are. So I think you got to be open to it, you gotta be open to conversation, having coffees and even now our CEO an extra slide if you don't get hit up for a job at least once a week, you're doing something wrong. Because you know, that's that's how our market is now. So I'd say you know, seize opportunities as they as they come because sometimes they don't come around again, that was my big one for the zero opportunity. That was never going to be an opportunity that would ever come around. I just knew it and because it was a public role. I just knew full well that I would see the person that became the head of accounting and just go that could have been me, but no different to the to the extra for all I mean, in hindsight now taking that opportunity to become a an ASX listed CFO, literally overnight, in the sense of getting off of that opportunity. It is pretty hard to get a job as a CFO and ASICs company unless you've been in the Asics world. So I had been in that world and advise clients in that world. But I had never done that. I'd started my own businesses and was an entrepreneur myself, but certainly I didn't have that tick of approval, because you can't fake that it's public. You can't even say you've been the ASX listed CFO. So. So that was another one of those opportunities that I can't let this go past. So I think sometimes I will let opportunities go. But sometimes, you know, the advice there is if you look at an opportunity, and you will have regret. If you don't at least apply or go for it, then you need to go for it.

Richard Holmes  13:21

And it sounds like you've worked with and been influenced by some brilliant people over the years. Is anyone stood out who's influenced you the most? Or is it a collection of people?

James Solomons  13:31

I mean, in my early, yeah, my first sort of 14 years, you know, person that interviewed me, became my boss, and then a bit my business partner and mentor. And so he sort of influenced my career a lot in the early days, be about the client and have a relationship with the client don't just sort of make it transactional. But then I've been really lucky to work. Certainly since taking that step into Xero. To work with people outside of finance, Chris read BMD and then Trent in us, fantastic tech leaders. I mean, Trent was a CPA for about I think it was six months, he said, so definitely, you know, those guys there, you know, even now, I like the way I work is I will accept a job based on who I'm going to work with. Of course, I haven't accepted many jobs. But it's been about the people I'm going to work with. So in working at zero, it was cool to work for zero, but at the same time, I would get to work with Chris and Trent and some amazing people in the Zero World. No different to X ray, you know, certainly Lee team, the two co founders, you know, when when I got offered the opportunity that I'm going to work with some pretty smart guys and are different to my business partner, Rebecca when we founded Aptus, you know, followed a similar career journey to me and we connected on that front. So I think, you know, it's definitely they've influenced and look obviously on the personal side. My wife and my mum have certainly influenced me, pretty much you know, for the last seven My mum for 41 years and my wife, we've been together 21 years. So it's definitely be influences on the home front,

Richard Holmes  15:06

the home from James Cancer a lot, doesn't it? India have a mental?

James Solomons  15:11

Yeah, it's it's funny like I, up until, you know, obviously I said that, you know, my, my initial boss became a mentor. And then aside from that I'd never really sought out a mentor. As I said, I'd always tried to work with even clients in the practice world, I would work with clients that were successful business people and but I didn't really have a mentor as such, but I was a mentor for a lots of people, undergrads, you know, people that I worked with, and, and then I was pretty fortunate, after doing a CFO series interview, to have a guy come up to me after my session and asked me to have a coffee. And I found out he was the CEO of Suncorp bank, and the chairman of ANP. Capital, as well as this is pretty, pretty impressive guy. And we've, we've stayed connected over the last couple of years, and, and he's challenged me a lot on my career. So to your point, is saying I'd sort of taken control of my career, really, until I started having some frequent discussions with John, I hadn't really left my credit chance, I worked hard, put my head down, God given opportunities, and then would, you know, take it and then work hard to repay the debt of gratitude for that opportunity. And John would say, Well, that's good. But you know, after a certain period, you've repaid that debt, you know, now you've got to be in control of your career where you want to go, what do you want to do in 39369 years? And like, well, even after our first meeting, he raised me, he goes, Are you okay? I think are British who have been on mine. I said, yeah, like I said, I've never actually really taken because in finance, you know, you tend to, like my wife said, When I started at zero, so they put your career was sorted, you know, that you were going to be a partner and own a firm, and we would live a comfortable lifestyle, and you basically gone and disrupted your own life to chase a tech dream. So I think in finance, quite often, you might be a bit stale in managing your career. And so certainly on the mental side, John's helped me to be really clear about where I want to go and where I want to be. And, you know, identify for me, you know, at some point, I would like to be the CEO of a company, which is quite often a natural progression for a CFO to move into that CIO role. So he's like, Well, that's good, because I think you've got that potential. But there's things you need to do along the way. And he's helped me articulate that. So it's been good to be on the other side of the fence. But even when I mentor I love mentoring people, because it's a two way street. I learned so much from the people that come to meet ask questions. I often find them asking me questions about what they've done, and challenges they've overcome and puts things in perspective. I do now have a mentor we catch up when we can certainly COVID put a bit of stop to face to face coffees, but he's always there and open to if I need some advice or something to give him a buzz.

Richard Holmes  18:01

By example, there James is that even at your level, you can always keep learning new, if you want to know what you know, we have conversations with that person and in mentors and other bosses, what's the best bit of advice you've ever received?

James Solomons  18:13

I would say is probably to one is, I think I mentioned this earlier, take opportunities as they come. Because quite often, they just don't come around again. And you will know that because if you're keeping your eyes open to opportunities, you'll know a good one, when when it comes across your desk, so to speak. But then the second one is, you know, life's too short to deal with assholes. There's other words to use, but life's too short to work with ourselves. So, you know, you might even have a great job. But certainly if you're not enjoying who you work with, it's time to move on 4g. I've never been in that situation. But certainly when I've had to make decisions, just go where am I coming from, from making this decision is a personal thing that I'm upset with? Do I feel personally attacked? Is it? No, it's actually business. And I've just taken it personally. And I look at it like that. And that ultimately, if it ever got to a point in any of that, but I have fired clients in the past. So in practice world, I would actively move clients on that were just assholes, to me and my team are worthless to short. Don't find somebody else. So that's a corporate world. I haven't had do that. But definitely I always look at it. That perspective is Life is too short.

Richard Holmes  19:22

100% agree James, in the nature of my role as well. Like, I speak to a lot of people and deeply upset if you don't like going to work and I just feel that life is too short. You can move there's other jobs out there. It's about self awareness. On the flip side of that, what's the worst advice you've ever received?

James Solomons  19:40

I wouldn't say to advice, I mean, I've been so I've been told things like, I mean, we've discussed already, like, you know, stay at a job long term. You know, you I became a partner at early age 27. So certainly I didn't have that sort of opportunity to once you become a partner. That's it. You know, you own those clients and had I not been a partner I probably would have have maybe moved around a bit earlier. So once I've had bad advice, but one thing that did throw me a little bit before I worked at zero. So whilst I was a partner at the old firm, I saw myself as a leader and, and I got shut down a few times by various people around you actually really bad manager. You're not good at execution, you say lots of things, but, you know, follow through, and actually through me about a bit of it knock my confidence in my Yeah, you're right, actually, you know, there's lots of things I talk about, we don't get them executed, took me about three or four years to sort of go hang on, it's not the right way to look at it. Because leaders and managers are two very different people. I want to be a leader, I want to empower people and take them on a journey. And so therefore, I need to hire great people, to let them go on a journey. But we all have a common goal rather than being that manager. And I think it's it's not wasn't bad advice. But it certainly was advice in that role, you need to stop being the visionary, and be a better manager. But as a partner and accounting firm, your job is to be the visionary and to bring clients in and get a good team around you. So say, when you work out where you sit, if you want to be a leader, you got to do things that leaders do, don't fall back to being a manager, or vice versa, if you don't want to be a leader, but you want to be a manager don't sort of move into that leadership role and expect it to be expected to be a case of managing because they are very, very different roles and require different mindsets at different times. And of course, you can be both but certainly, the through me of it took me about it took me a couple of years really to get over that and realize that they're actually wrong, that what I was doing was right. Which is probably one reason I end up leaving that firm. That's a story for another day.

Richard Holmes  21:40

What hurdles Did you did you personally face in how did you overcome them? I mean, that find somewhere you go was was a good one. You had many hurdles through your career or,

James Solomons  21:48

I mean, look, impostor syndrome is certainly a certainly a theme. And I, I'm the oldest of three boys, single parent, family, and no, went to Sydney boys had a lot of friends in the eastern suburbs. And I learned how to adapt. You know, those things sort of learned me how to adapt as a kid with not lots of money needing to fit in with Eastern Suburbs crowd. And so what that did was the hurdle that I overcame at that stage, but then even it's a started my career. One thing I found was because I was being successful, even in the starting of my junior career, very quickly, people that I was being hired under, I became their boss, and, you know, having to be their bosses of people that you need to start with or started well, before you that was a challenge. But definitely, you know, that confidence, certainly the zero role. I mean, here, I was a guy from a suburban Sydney accounting firm now, basically being the poster thought leader of the big cloud disrupter, getting up on stage. Again, none of my peers knew that this role, I'd been appointed to this role. And there's just like, yeah, there's a lot of confidence that needed to be built, get over my own insecurities about even I would be like, how did I get this job, but then when I look back, and I look at what I was doing, and the articles I was writing, and actually the things I was doing for the industry, I was like, well, actually, I did deserve to be in that role. And sometimes, that's probably the personal challenges that is the most is something, an opportunity has come and taken it and then I sit back and I go, why have I been given this opportunity? But then I sit back and stop and reflect, I go actually, it wasn't luck. You know, you make your own luck, and you're in the right place at the right time. But it's taken a lot to get to that place. So I'd say you know, that's definitely, definitely been the main personal challenges because even in the ASX world, you know, I've met some amazing finance leaders who have just not been able to get the gig as a CFO of an ASX company, because they've just never been in an ASICs position. And so they're just overlooked. And so you go, you know, quite lucky to be REM, so very thankful. The one way I've certainly got around that it's always been open to give back back to the industry and to community. Because the probably the help that I got early on in my life, but certainly, I've gotten so much of the industry, as soon as I could I was giving back joining community groups or mentoring or speaking at unis and you know, that was rewarded with being made a fellow you know, at only 27 years of age of CA so, you know, that was again, a testament to what I was trying to do for the industry to help along the next generation. And that allowed me to come over my insecurities because then you would realize that actually, I am where I am because of what I've achieved, and not because I'm an imposter. So there's a long answer to a short question.

Richard Holmes  24:46

It's quite fascinating James that you yourself about impostor syndrome. Look, even you know, I

James Solomons  24:51

host the CFO series, lunchtime live chats and a interview. I'm on the other side of the fence today, but I interview some amazing finance leaders and I just In order of some of the things I've achieved, and I'm like, you know, I'm privileged to sit here and ask you the questions, even when I was working at zero talking to some amazing people in in industry, and I'm just like, Wow, you guys, are you guys great. I'm going to write stuff down, you often see me on those those webinars writing stuff down, because I want to take that back to my team is constantly learning, right? You're constantly learning. And I think, as a community, the best way we all get over that sort of insecurities is working with each other. So that's what I've always tried to do.

Richard Holmes  25:30

In talking about learning as well known as a thought leader in the market. How do you continue to keep on learning in order to stay on top of epi rollin keep on moving forward?

James Solomons  25:39

I love to learn. If I had the time I do an MBA, or I've even I was even asked by Macquarie Uni to do a PhD on change in the accounting industry, when I was at zero, and I sort of pushed back on that, because I realized that was a big piece of work. And then it's like a point in time, where the industry is moving so fast that by the time it actually the thesis would go through and become a doctor of accounting. It's all irrelevant. It's all changed. And had I done that, I mean, Blockchain was so in its infancy, but it's one of the big things that's coming. So what I've tried to do is, you know, I use Google Alerts, Google Alerts as my friend, I have lots of things telling me what I should read today, or what I should focus on keyword searches that pop up. And obviously, I keep up to date with my CPD. And because I'm still a registered tax agent, you know, member of the company directors have done my graduate there. And so I've got all these associations that are members of and all have their own CPD is of course, so that sort of forces me to to keep up to date, but there are certainly I do my best to certainly working from home has helped that is, you know, take a break out for an hour to read up on a subject area. Because as I give advice to uni students, when I do some guest lecturing, I'm like, your generation is now that they're coming into the industry, and you've got to know what's going on, you know, you've got to go to interviews and be able to talk about the cloud blockchain, it's up to you to know this stuff, that will give you a good opportunity in your interviews, but certainly, it's just expected. So we do a lot of reading. I've got lots of you know, newsletters come in and in all different areas. And, and certainly I'll sort of our bookmark stuff when I can, and come back to that sort of outside the formal education, or did like to conferences always good, because it was a day where you were forced to go to something, we're not forced, but you would go to something and you clear your diary for the day. Like I'm at this date conference, where it's a tax conference, or a reporting conference, or something more interesting. Least you are there, obviously COVID Put an end to that. But well, that's done is allow us to consume more bite sized stuff. So I do find myself and I've used to like watching webinars. But now I will put a webinar on and sit there at home for 30 minutes just to get up to date. So yeah, I sort of make it as a thought leader, as you said, you know, you can't speak, it's that fear of being called out. So I sort of make it my business to to know what's going on in any place that I'm going to be speaking or giving an opinion. Because that way, you know, if I get called out, I can rebut with, with confidence that I do, and I'm talking about, but certainly, you know, little short courses here and there every now and then I'll do a leadership course just to brush up on latest skills. But yeah, I mean, outside of the big formal one, lots of bite sized trainings in areas that interest me, you know, outside of the CPD that I need to do, or pick areas that interests me or areas that you know, like, certainly now blockchain is becoming an area that that I think, again, I feel as I'm a late adopter, but I'm probably not, you know, I need to understand that more clearly. Because it is going to start to influence the

Richard Holmes  28:50

industry. In terms of learning James, have you always been like that? Or is that been more recently?

James Solomons  28:55

Now, I guess, probably always been like that. I love to learn. I love to learn, uh, certainly, you know, I loved school, or hated exams, but still managed to do okay. And I just like learning new things or cementing knowledge, what I don't like he's being tested on at the end, which is probably why I haven't gone back to doing I've done my ca in my company directors course and considered a few times to do something again, like an MBs. I might actually I don't want to be tested. So I've always been like that. But I also like to educate. And I've always seen my role in whatever business I mean, always as an educator myself, so I like education. I even sit on the school, the board of directors at my kids school. And for that I had to learn, went into there with from a commercial background. And very quickly realized that you know, running a school as a director, there's a lot of responsibility. A lot of things I'm on the hook for, even though it's a it's a private school, but certainly we don't get paid for it's a voluntary position yet. Just like any directorship. Paula, my asset It's there on the line for a school and and the work health and safety and safety students. So I've spent a bit of time in the last four months really skilling up on how to run a school and all the other things that go into being a school. And I've even taken some of that back to corporate world in the way that, you know, oh, h&s and risk assessments. And there's a lot of risk in a school, there's a lot of risk, even somewhat more than a than a corporate organization. So, you know, I've applied some of those learnings already from the other directors and principal back to corporate life. So I tend to do that a lot, probably to sum that question up is the transferable skills to use that term, learn from something and how could I apply that to somewhere else? Do it that way?

Richard Holmes  30:45

And what's the biggest area related to your current role, James, that you're curious about? And why?

James Solomons  30:51

On the finance side, I mentioned before, you know, the application of how the blockchain is going to sort of impact what we do. I mean, certainly, automation is made a huge change in the industry in the last 10 years. It's whether that will continue, whether that sort of roads, more of the manual parts of business, but certainly, certainly that's very much specific to finance and the application for business instead of their CFO role. It is a lot of views on what actually does the CFO look like in the next couple of years? You know, it's always been that sort of, it's certainly changed in the last 10 years from when I used to see CFOs to the role that I play now. And certainly, there's lots of literature on that. And I host that thing where I asked the same question, what what is the CFO the future look like. But I don't think anyone knows, I think it's going to be a bit of a, for different types of businesses, it will be very, very different. But I do think it will continue to grow into that. You know, a lot of people say is the CFO, the second in charge is the CFO, if there is a CEO, the second in charge of a company, I think very much the CFO is of tomorrow is going to be doing less and less of the numbers, and much more of a strategy. In our industry, I mean, HR tech, you're an HR world, and I'm very, you know, the whole employee experience, and how all that's coming together, the new world of work. And so again, this is very relevant to the company that I work for, because that's our industry. So I'm making it my business to be really across what's happening in in HR, because it's the biggest asset in most businesses. So therefore, it should be the CFOs responsibility to make sure we're getting a good ROI. And putting aside all the noise with the great resignation, or that it's, you know, what, uh, what does the next generation of workers want, you know, I've got two young kids 11, and eight, you know, what's work going to be for them, when my daughter starts working eight years, I'm not even 50. So I'm still got, I believe, a bit of a career to run after that, even if semi retired, so like, I'm going to be dealing with people like my daughter. And you know, for anyone that has young kids that age, we're probably all scared of that, to be honest, because they are very educated, tech savvy, opinionated group of young kids. But even now, like, I've got a brother that's in his 30s. And that generation is so different. And then there's the kids at uni that I speak to their their 20s. And I'm like, there's so much it's going to change every sort of five years over, then you know, the way that we work. It's really, even though it's not really extra responsibility, because we're, we're in a very sticky end of employment lifecycle, and we're not very much involved in day to day, but certainly, how that's going to pan out is going to influence the way that businesses have to run. And of course, if it's influencing the way of business has to run, it has an impact on numbers, whether that's revenue or profits. So it all comes back. So it actually is quite a quite a relevant part. Because if you're ahead of the game, you are able to make decisions, which you know, you can put in place that that anticipate where things are going to go. So yeah, it's, it's very, very interesting how that's all going to impact on the bottom line. Ultimately,

Richard Holmes  34:13

it's an exciting time as well. It's a bit like you've been in your career for, for what it say 21 years of evolution of finance and what it was like to where it is now and the leaps and bounds in the last 10 years. What's it going to be like in another 10 years?

James Solomons  34:26

My very first job in the accounting firm, I started with coding and posting bank statements. In UK Ms. Westpac statements are similar. You know, they told me, here's your Chart of Accounts, code it and I'm on that first day I fell asleep and I was like, if this is what accounting is, like, I don't think it's because I was doing business. You know, I was doing business and move to accounting, which I think was the right move because I know how to run a business now from a numbers perspective, which most pieces people sometimes don't know how to do. They don't understand the importance of the numbers from that day on. Like there's got to be a better way. So immediately, I was looking He for ways to improve things so much. So eventually that mechanic was on a full, a full cloud system, it took 12 years to get in there. And the cloud came out, of course, but I've got him on there. But you're right, you know, had you asked me in 2010, or even 1110 years into my career, you know, what would it look like in 2022? There's no way I would have predicted what we're doing now. And the closing slide of my lecture to uni is, you know, there's a Peter Drucker quote, you know, with automation, the job always looks very, very different. It's always going to be different. And I go, you know, accounting as we know it today. No one knows what's going to be like 10 years. So you're exactly right, it's, but the key is to keep abreast of what's happening. And if you keep abreast of it, then that's when two things happen. One, you don't get left behind the two you get given the opportunities that otherwise you wouldn't have seen. So yeah, it's it's it has evolved. But I actually think it's going to move even faster. I've seen so much. It's gotten so fast, so quickly. But I think it's not slowing down. Human nature is not to slow down so that we're going to see more evolution, the way to get ahead in your career on that is really make it your business to know what's going on because then you're able to talk about it, even impress potential employers with your knowledge that we're like, we need that person. That person knows everything about this, you know, we need them internally, pay them what we want. So that's one good way for people to get ahead. That's for sure.

Richard Holmes  36:26

Yeah, I love that. I think that's great advice, as well just be self aware, where is a future research? You've touched on a few times, James, you've worked with some great people, what does culture mean to you?

James Solomons  36:36

I've said it a few times in in lots of different settings, that I'm fortunate to be part of, but you can't fake culture. And I think, you know, you can say you can set out with culture statements and mission statements and things like that. But in the end, you know, culture ultimately is the way things are done, and the way people operate. You know, for me, I always, I've always set out to have, you know, for the people that I either work with, you know, sideways, people that work for me, or even people that I've report to, it's about sort of having a an environment where people feel empowered, and motivated to move forward in their careers. But also, you know, people feel safe to make mistakes, because, you know, greatest learnings quite often come from making mistakes. And I think that, you know, people are fearful of losing jobs, because they're making a mistake by having a go. And that's good. So I think culture is important because ultimately, I sit in a privileged position in in X ray in the C suite. Very, very different to our to our frontline team members and support who are probably more important than me on a day to day basis with our clients because they do an amazing job. X Ray has been ranked in the top nine in the top 10, it was ninth in business to business sellers in Australia, New Zealand, the top referencing platform globally with G TOS rankings. And that's come that's not from me, that's that's not even from Lee, the founder, it's our team, coming to work day to day, or maybe just going to their office at their home and getting online and supporting our clients. And if you have a shit culture, they're not going to want to do that they're not going to go out of their way. So I think in the end, it just comes down to people feeling valued. And if you can build a culture where people feel valued, that they're being rewarded, that being recognized, and they have the opportunity to move forward, then I think you could try and identify that high performing culture or something. But in the end, I mean, it's just it's a culture where everyone chips in, even though we're all at different points in in a traditional hierarchy. We're all paid different amounts, Borger, different incentives. But in the end, our common goal is to add extra effort to build a great product and to support our clients. So was no different at 02. I love looking at zero, and again, no different to the firm that I found, it was very much on the client focus. But yeah, for me, that's what culture is. It's, it's how the business operates. And, and for us, as the leaders, it's about giving people confidence to do their best work and getting out of their way. You always got to hire people smarter than you, or at least get out of people's way and let them get on with their jobs. And I love

Richard Holmes  39:16

your point, just feeling valued. Listening to, to JMG you're obviously a busy guy, even with the work you do with the school, you must at times feel a bit overwhelmed. What do you do in those situations,

James Solomons  39:27

you know, CFO of a public company, on its own is, is a busy thing, but you know, I I'm the treasurer of three different orgs on the school board, I still look after some clients in my practice, do the lecturing at uni when I can and I like to be involved and assist out you know where I can. And obviously COVID for any CFO in any business was a stressful time. For us. It was definitely stressful given that we're at HR tech at the pre employment referencing stage so people stop hiring. We don't have a business right so but even then, you know, there's always there's always lots to do. So there's two ways I've sort of dealt with as is, in the old days that try and clean my to do list every day. I like to tick things off, get them off. So first of all, I stopped putting so many things on my to do list, but also I was like, you know, if I don't get through it, it's okay to be there tomorrow. So I sort of a give myself a break, you know, and actually look at all the things I do on my work. If you don't get that today. It's okay. Keep people advised if you've promised something, so I tend to try and I manage expectations quite well. So if I've committed to something and I can't get there, I will let that person know rather than disappoint them, because I don't like to disappoint people. But then on a personal level, you know, I just either just get up and walk away from my desk and be at home for two years. And that's not going to change going forward for us. You know, if the kids are home, just go and sit with the kids or you know, find something to watch on telly, or do take a deep breath and just go It's okay. You're probably overcommitted anyway, and, and the person probably wasn't expecting it. So I just got myself a break, trying to take my mind off and I have acres. So I've got plenty to do at my house. Whether it's mowing the lawn, dealing with weeds, cutting a tree down or doing a project, there's always something to do that can take my mind off it. So keep myself busy with something other than work.

Richard Holmes  41:25

And that's probably good for you as well. James, isn't it something not finance work related, but manual work?

James Solomons  41:31

Yeah, that's right. That's right. And there is a sense of accomplishment because when you mow a couple of acres, it's done. It's quite a big lawn, sit back have a beer I have a ride on of course, that's not too physical. But still, that's two hours, two and a half hours and I've done this, this is a can accomplish project, I can now go back to the other 75 unaccomplished projects that I've got in work and professional life. At least I've done this today. It's like that that's like that famous Navy guy saying, you know, if you want to get on the road to achieving your goals, start making your bed, you've done something you've at least accomplished something today. So it's it is those little things that sometimes work.

Richard Holmes  42:09

I mean, you've been really open table telling me something not many people know about you.

James Solomons  42:14

Oh, look, I'm a pretty Yeah, I'm a fairly open book. So anyone that's willing to listen to my life story tends to know most about me, but I mean, you know, this is obviously a podcast and no one can see me but you know, I'm a lot larger than I wasn't at high school. I was 60 kilos, and I finished high school on and punch in the ton now. But when I was in high school, I was an athlete, quite a quite a serious athlete. So Captain of athletics. And, you know, I've broken the hour for the city to serve. So I've done a lot of running in my lifetime. And so yeah, I was very, very active. And when I was at school, sport and music is also a bit of a musician, sport music where my not even my preferences. I just want to join the most did on sports field playing soccer or running or playing baseball, playing in the band. So I played trombone. I've been playing trombone since I was nine years old, sort of played in the zero band. Yeah, I love music. And at one point, I was never going to be a professional sportsman. Although I was a bit taller. I'm on a plane for Liverpool in goals. I had to make a decision going into year 11am I going to go business? Or am I going to go music because I was quite an accomplished musician at that age and was really considering you know, that professional musician life and then maybe go to the Con and become a performing artists and but I do remember my jazz tutor, saying to me, man, what do you want to do that for? You know, what do you want to be a business person for his like, you'll hate it when I get that. But Jason, you eat two minute noodles every day, and you're a 29 year old adult. I know. It'd be a cool life to be a jazz musician, but maybe it's not for me. But the other part of that was, I tried to get to the army twice. So I tried to go to Royal Military College. And Adva applied twice got to the selection board twice because I was in Cadet so I like routine and that sort of concept of a uniform. I proudly wore my uniform at school and and yeah, I applied twice got to the final selection board on both occasions, and you know, as an 18, and then a 19 year old to be told by the to the recruiting officers to go, you're actually too smart for the army. And I'm like, what do you what do you mean that like, we actually think you would be more suited to the corporate boardroom? Because you're a bit of a challenger, you know, and that can be a problem on the battlefield. I might you guys don't know what you're talking about. But certainly 20 years later, they're obviously right. So yeah, that's probably the thing people don't because I often tell people I used to be a bit of a sportsman but a lot of people know I was very defined to either be a musician or go to the army and serve in the defence force in the infantry, not even in in engineers. I wanted to be on the front line and Um, yeah, they they identified that I was more suited to the boardroom, which at the time I was quite devastated about, but they obviously knew they obviously knew something that I didn't know at

Richard Holmes  45:10

the time. Hey, look, James, I think your story today and the examples and advice you're given is fantastic. And exactly what this podcast is for and really appreciate your time. It's a pleasure to have you on and look, I'm sure we'll have you on the show again in the future. And all the best here.

James Solomons  45:25

Now, Thanks, Rich and Yeah, certainly happy to if anyone's got any questions or anything. Just connect with me on LinkedIn and shoot me some questions and always happy to help out where I can in other people's careers or in the industry in general. Right price

Richard Holmes  45:39

control, James and have a great day and we'll we'll chat soon.